Thanks! Not sure DG would drain properly with the cement base. Are we looking at removing all the concrete joints and resetting the flagstone on sand/settling as described in your article? Then we mixed a ratio of 2 parts mortar to 1 part pea gravel. Nor would I use any sort of caulk. Great advice and beautiful work around the pool.. thank you! Any ideas? Love the info. Visible from the road, near blue Mountain Ski Resort. Dont cover that steak in big mac sauce. I think your solution is the answer. The flagstones, having not perfectly flat surfaces, means that if you fill the joints all the way flush with the tops of the flagstones, then that joint material will spill out. Id recommend removing most of the sand. I have pea gravel in the entire enclosure. Other times I go with a crumbly-dry mix. If you purchased plastic edging..just return it to lowes. Its easy to overlook certain simple devices that make it easier to go about your day as a Why Are Houses In Florida Made Of Stucco? I have been struggling to find information on Breeze vs Polymeric Sand to put in the 1 grout lines. Stick to plain stone dust is my advice, and keep the joints tight! Polymeric sand is sand with an acrylic binder added. On the note of odor, there are products you can hook up to your hose pipe to breakdown dog waste and odors. And, if so, is there a way to do this so you dont see the border material for the finished project? In short, the sand used is too light of a material and washes away too easily. I have heard many hardscapers claim that its impossible to remove the polymeric sand haze. Tamp the base rock until it does not move, as this supports the pea gravel. Prices will vary.but so long as youre able to finish while only renting the tools for a day or 2, then you should come in on budget. If the stones are set upon a concrete foundation: mortar, as addressed here. Should we scrape all screening, organic material and weeds? Thanks! And then simply add screening as you instruct on your website? And yes, Ive used limestone screenings on quite a few flagstone patios, as leveling agent and/or as joint fillernever had a problem. thanks, Chris (Santa Cruz Ca). Do you recommend a sealer be applied at all? Either pour or sprinkle the binding solution over the pea gravel in even and light layers. JavaScript is disabled. The gaps range from 1/4 1 between stones. Sounds like a winner, right? 2. No more cats, WOOHOO! material. I like your views and outlook so poly is out and screenings are in.not very keen on chemicals where the barefoot grandson walks! If no to bother questions, then the project should not be too hard. But whatever the foundation is, it shouldnt develop such a vast chasm. Sigh! Your work looks great! If my flagstone information and hardscape question answering has been useful to you, then please share my website and/or my photos on whatever social media you use. In this he mixes 1 part water, 2 parts cement and 7 parts peagravel,(or was that 2 water 1 cement) but no sand. That doesnt mean that they certainly wont work.but as a professional, they wouldnt usually be my first pick. Site conditions will of course determine which will work for your spot. test area because it may stain the flagstones too. Either fulling the joints with soil and seeding, or, during the excavtion Ill carefully remove the sodthe grass itself plus 2 of soil and roots along with it. Its an old articlebut its been updated recently. This is ideal for new pea gravel installation. Gods peace. Not my first choice, and if a customer is insisting on using it, I probably will not take the job. But Ive seen em fail down south, and out south west, too. It is an excellent material for leveling out your flagstonesthe best in my opinion, and likewise it is the best joint filler for flagstones. Thanks again! If a project interests me I can be convinced to travel. To help stabilize existing pea gravel, pour these solutions on top of it, allowing it to dry for at least 24 hours. I filled each joint half full and then ran a light plate compactor (with rubber protector matt between the plate and the stone this vibrated the sand down into all the voids at the bottom of each joint) then I came back through with the grout bag and filled the joint to the approximately 1/8th of an inch below the top surface of the flagstone. This will lead to headaches. After only 2 months the patio has developed a cavity probably 12-18 deep with an oblong hole in the sand about 6 long. Id love to hear your ideas of anything you think might work. Seriously, how much rain did you get? If the paver base is made up of 1/8 chips of stone, mixed up with smaller bits, much of which is so small that it is flour-like, then, well, its the right stuff. I plan to move every stone out to the opposite side and keep the pattern intact. Any cons to using mortar? - M.K. Also, how could you please help me with All the steps and tools i need to take for this DIY basketball court. We have a large patio of flagstone set with concrete or mortar. For urine & feces odor control I spray the kennels occasionally with yard odor killer, which works great.I don't use cement because it is damaging to the dogs pads.To address my problem:I have a long driveway made with reject ab. In a few places where pressure washing has removed the soil, I filled the joints with the rock screening you recommend. If it were me, Id repair the existing patio with mortarand then probably do the additional 10 dry laid. Yes, whenever you grind out mortar joints between flagstone, I pretty much expect a stone or two to pop up lose. Thanks for your vet insightful information! Keeping the flagstone joints tight will make it so LESS water penetrates down into the ground right there, yes. Just dont! Any thoughts? Im hoping you might recommend something. Lets examine these advantages one at a time: Related content: One on one help is available. Using pavers, like TRUEGRID pavers, to stabilize your pea gravel walkway is another option. I think that where there is soil, the rain results in dirty water covering the stones, making them dirty more quickly than might be expected. Its looks like a flat matte color where there was poly sand and where no poly sand you see a beautiful high gloss high color finish.this is the best analogy I can think of. *its a plant fiber. Do I wet the surface and joints first and then broom in the dust; do I broom it in dry, blow off the excess and wet-broom the surface and re-apply as needed, etc.? This falls under the no cement at all in a dry laid patio rule. I'm excited because I can do a number of project now. and it will still look natural. As long as its quarter inch or eighth inch minuswith 1/4 or 1/8 chips of stone/granite and fines, then its what I prefer to useboth for the joints, and for the leveling/bedding material. I have old flagstone with sand in between. We are in Ontario, Canada. Your sculptures are amazing by the way! When gravel shifts, it can expose the weed cloth underneath, letting weeds overtake the edges of your gravel walkway or driveway. Most of my jobs are in Pennsylvania. I think you use what you have available. and do you ask for just that (Stone dust or screenings)? No problem. Just hose the patio down real well. Anyone with real life experience using it? If things settle down I sure will try something fun! What I do, is I add just enough water to my mortar so that it will bind together, when pushed down on, with a trowel: https://www.devineescapes.com/flagstone-walkway-re-pointing-repair-paoli/. The patio comes off the basement door and is surround on three sides by 4-5 retaining walls, and had a 4 drain in the pave patioit was sinking especially around the drain. We are a team of passionate homeowners, home improvement pros, and DIY enthusiasts who enjoy sharing home improvement, housekeeping, decorating, and more with other homeowners! Not to be pendantic! I am not wedded to those tumbled red steppers. Were halfway through a DIY of flagstone on the side of our driveway. Do you have any ideas of what the cause could be? Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Well yes, if a flagstone patio is pitched properly then water will flow over the flagstones and into a drain. look at Landscaping Projects 2007, Favourite ROSES We Grow albums. Stiffin it up a bit so it's not so loose. Gravel-Lok, also known as "Gravel Glue" is a Polyurethane-based resin which when binds stones together when applied. You may be familiar with it as a stomach medicine. Luckily, there are many ways you can stabilize pea gravel on walkways and driveways. A metal edging or pt lumber border will look better than a plastic border.stone can be used. Btw I am also in NEPA. Next, I planned to re-do my leveling with sand and a plate compactor, followed by screenings (this hadnt happened before) & again the plate compactor. Just did a repair where the sand in-between and under the flagstones was undermined by and taken over by ants. Fact is, if natracil wanted some publicity.theyd send me a free sample. But the weeds are a pain to keep up with. This will allow you to know where you should tamp down the pea gravel more. So IDK, rip out that old drain, and install your new drain correctly. These stones on the pool edge got mortared in joints, dyed dark gray to match the stone dust/DG that was used for the rest of the flagstone. And I also offer DIY phone consultations, in case my articles are not enough to help you with your flagstone questions. Need your patio be perfect? You want to leave the joints approximately 1/8 to 1/4 below the top of the stone. I was thinking about trying a 4' wide path going back to the horse barn. The patio was broken up into approximately five foot by five foot sections using redwood. Anyone use this sand to firm up a stone driveway? Id use the saw, rather than a drill, because with the saw you can make it continuous, getting the whole thing to drain and would probably be fast to dobut I suppose you could drill one hole every 10 or something like that. (P.S. I live in the the finger lakes region of New York. If the foundation is dry laid, repair using dry laid methods/if the foundation is cement based, repair with cementious materials. The stone settles, the joint cracks. If stone chips are getting all over the surface of your flagstone, then the joints are probably over filled. Be sure to hose off and dont let muriatic acid sit long, as it can deteriorate the joint materialmuriatic acid eats cement. Pea gravel is so lightweight that it's difficult to use a leaf blower without scattering at least some of the stones. The 2nd link has what theyre calling decomposed granite, but given my calling around locally, I question if thats the same stuff as what you specify. Ditto what had been said here about using pea gravel. I recommend washing out the rest of the sand. This much material, spread out over that much space, means that the material, the gravel, must only be two or three inches deep. Thank you for your devotion to this subject. Devin, Thanks for all your thoughtful advise. First of all, I build flagstone pathways, not DG. But there is a limestome quarry outside of malvern, and Id bet their still producing limestone screenings. Get some cement , not sand mix or concrete . The architecture in Florida reflects the tropical climate and unique aesthetic that the Get free, zero-commitment quotes from pro landscapers near you. Have a great summer. It does not get dug out by ants, weeds cant grow through it and it does not wash out. How much foot traffic are we expecting? Great work, youve inspired another. Yea, buy a few brick, cut them, do it right. If not, then Id grab my oxygen/acetylene torch. All rain is during the winter months. You can purchase products like EasiHold or Gravel-Lok, or other epoxy coatings. Anyway, after its gone just sweep in screeinings and be happy. I have a circle design using left-over holland pavers; so there are cracks. Anyway, I suspect white screenings are going to be too white for what youre trying to match. In cases of larger gaps like that, Ive had good experiences using: -larger 1-2 river rock. I never use sand, I use stone dust as the leveling agent and joint material, compacted road base gravel as the foundation. Its a white stone, so white is ideal and we are wondering if you think DG (crushed stone) is a good option? So fun, so tiring!). Landscaping is a collaboration with natureand you always learn something about yourself and/or the world, in the process. Are you stuck having someone put more in? It does shift when the dogs play or work here. If the stones are set upon a gravel foundation: 1/4 minus. How much does polymeric sand cost? Crushed gravel can range in different sizes too and is often used for driveways, paths, and decorative purposes. Next, snap the pavers into place over the top of the gravel and fill the empty cells with more pea gravel. Hi Devin, Ive loved to play with rocks and recently did some work at our camp on Moosehead Lake (ME). I live just north of Philly (19046). I am totally on board with between the cracks, but should I insist on the bed as well? Where are you in PA? A wire-brush plus a lot of elbow grease will often remove much of the hazewill rarely get it all though. Common does not mean good. Youre welcome Rob, Im happy I could be helpful . What is the best way to get the cracks between the flagstones sealed? Is this a different product or same thing but a different name? Hi Devin, greetings from colorado. It was wet out today and all the beautiful color of the flagstone was showing nicely where I have not used poly sand on the joints; but in the areas where I used poly sand it all has a dull haze and the natural colors just dont come through. Sweeping dg into the joints again, because some voids will have appeared after the first hose down, then hosing down again. Through the washing, exposed some cracks between the pavers. Would appreciate your advice. and our Come join the discussion about performance, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! . But then, it its still more rigid and solid than we want, for flagstone joints. see if it works. If you set your flagstones upon a gravel foundation/on a bed of sand or stone dustthen fill your joints with stone dust. Ive never seen any ratio of cement to stone dust/sand that works. After completing the digging of holes for the plants that I added, I topped the beds off with mulch and bark chips. The manufacturer recommends clean gaps of just polymeric sand. Plastic. Perhaps you could take a smaller piece of stone, create a mosaic up top of thatand use the resultant piece as a smaller paving stone, set on stone dust, among your dry laid flagstones. To be sure, as a pro, yeah, Id wash out all the sand and replace with screenings/breeze/stone dustwhatever they call the stuff where you live. Or pull up some layer of sand and put screening in? Actually both sweeping and hosing results in joint material all over the stone surface, and of course the joints then become less level than the stone surface as the breeze gets swept or washed out. First off, thank you for giving your location! We thought of ripping the whole thing out and putting stamped concrete because we hate the gaps so much (weeds, ants, etc). It would compact into a pretty hard surface over time. Id use stone dust.but if possible, Id tighten them joints up a bit. Fill joints with screening. Screenings, unlike polymeric sand, will indeed settle over time,howeverand that is a good thing! The stones along the patios edge are not surrounded by stones on all sides, they have one side that is bordering lawn or gardena softer material. 2. 1. Did you set the flagstones in mortar/on top of a concrete foundation? Given how unpleasant it is to walk on screenings with bare feet, what would your suggestion be for spaces that are greater than 3? Any suggestions? 2.5 inches over a ten foot span will be enough, provided there are no major dips. Can you help me understand the difference between decomposed granite and screenings? Also, do you have any mortar that you prefer over another? You mix it with the fines and sweep into the cracks, moisten. Sweep the dg into the flagstone joints, then carefully hose it downwashing small bits of dg down into any voids that may be hidden underneath the flagstone. But maybe some minor irregularity of the pitch and/or grading around the patio caused water to heavily move through one area. Paver set works well. It is helpful to see you are not a fan of the polymeric sand and the reasons why. It looses its gravel texture, it just ceases to be gravel.looking like a cross between a rice crispy teat and black-topbut looking nothing like a gravel walkway. Anywayssince you just used local soil, and built it yourself rather than hiring a mason, we can pretty much just say Well, it may not be perfect, but its got heart!. I cant find any advice on-line about how to apply the stone dust. I'd likely just go for concrete after this fiasco. I have had issues with weeds growing like crazy and for the past few years I have had digger wasps boring holes and burying their eggs in the holes. I prefer to keep them tighter, but 2 is doable. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Encourage moss to grow there. Other methods. The price does vary from store to store and from region to region. In my experience however, that was a rare exception to the rule. Even less worried about it, if your area does not freeze during the winter. Just sweep the decomposed granite into the cracks between the stones, then turn on the shower to set the DG/stone dust into place. Sorry, I must have missed your question.nearly 2 years ago. Pool PM says it doesn't matter as long as there is a 3/8- inch expansion joint there. Fine, it probably wont make it very slippery and probably wont alter its appearance all THAT much. First off, thank you for all your posts. Nope, no good. The area is shady and I imagine the main part of the area will grow moss but the pathway off the larger area might get a little sun so maybe not there. But tiny cracks do form, and weeds will get in there, roots will grow, cracks will get worse. Make your joints tighter. I was not thrilled with it at the time but time and money influenced our decision. How many inches would you do the compacted aggregate base? Dry laid is hugely my preference, in any place with a freeze-thaw cycle. It is apparently about 12 yrs old. The reason for a well compacted foundation of road base or something similar is thisroad base can be compacted and yet remains well draining. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. But, you came to me with a need and Id rather give you a complete answer. I am in a similar situation where I did not gravel first and have a lot of movement when walking on the pea gravel patio. I was hoping to find some neat product that we could add to the breeze or mix with it that would make it stable. Do you have any comments on how to best drain this so it doesnt continue to settle after i install the flagstones? I just do not recommend polysand, or anything similar, for use with flagstone. Maybe a dry concrete mix without the rocks in it? What is the best crack filler between a natural flagstone patio. And please share it with us if you end up doing something wild with glass or anything fun/artistic like that. I would not recommend sand for in between flagstone joints. Required fields are marked *. Having decades of experience, I can make this type of material workby fitting them tight, malleting them into their bedding material, maybe using some of the smaller ones uprightor not at all, and other tricks Ive picked up over the yearsbut still at the end of the day, a dry laid patio built with this sort of material will probably not be 100% wobble free at job completion. com should give you all the help you need in this regard. Thanks again! By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Felicity, I am not sure what ochre stone is but I went to a "stone retailer" and explained the problem. Keep the joint material just shy of the tops of your stones, an eighth inch or quarter inch lowdo this, and your problem will be solved. Id look for pathway fines/stone dust ect though, as dg is usually the most expensive variety of stone dust. Bulldozer or dynamite will be most expedient, but you can probably do the deed with a pick axe/pick maddock, and a wheelbarrow and shovel. The joint are fairly wide 1 to 2.5 average, and he even left some 3-6 areas along the perimeter walls. Also can I expect your comment via email or simply on this site? What I use is stone dust AKA screenings. I dont know what type of drain they installed.or what they did wrong. I just saw them at the rock yard and thought they looked attractive because of the effect the tumbling had on them. Tree limbs, leaves and mud can end up on the driveway. As such, I wouldnt really consider a dry lay option on top of old concrete unless the customer very much wanted it, and unless the flagstone itself were going to have a really tight fitting joints for example if it was going to be a pattern cut, square and rectangular flagstones with minimal joints then, if the walkway is pitched strong enough there really is not much way for a very much in order to get down there in the first place. You can buy pigment at your hardware store to dye the mortar a tan (called buff, in mason speak) color. This project will be my first. Despite that, regular stone dust usually works just fine in between flagstones, without any binder, polymeric or otherwise.
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