C+B I.I.P. Our goal is to encourage collectors by providing honest descriptions, fair prices, and the best customer service. The Carbine Collectors Club. Some manufacturers used more than one The stock rates in about Very Good Plus overall condition. Read about the Saginaw (S.G.) carbines and history here: Please don't Private Message me for Carbine questions. My guess is that since the receiver has the SG on the left front, it's probably a Saginaw-Saginaw and not a Saginaw-Grand Rapids (IP). The buttplate shows light scrapes & some discoloration along the edge. Underwood had receivers in various stages of completion left over when their contract ended. The M1 Carbine was widely issued to U.S. Military Forces which numbered over 16 million during WWII. A very scarce WW2 Saginaw manufacture U.S. M1 Carbine .30 Caliber Semi-Auto rifle. What are you basing your question on? This Inland M1 Carbine was made back in 1944. Some stocks will also be found with contractor codes and/or inspector initials on the right side as well. I can't find out who made it. Made in the Winter of 1943. IMMEDIATELY its how business should be done. Not consenting or withdrawing consent, may adversely affect certain features and functions. Saginaw Steering Gear in nearby Saginaw, MI was already engaged in the preparation for The top front of the receiver is marked U.S. Both were Divisions of General Motors but were located in different cities. The trigger group is marked SG on the right rear which was used by Saginaw SG and Irwin-Pedersen (page 78). You certain the receiver is S'G'? and is not a very late production Inland or Winchester, one may rest assured that the piece is a post-war rebuild or has been assembled from parts. Oval sling cut, High Wood covers slide As time goes on more and more carbines are having parts replaced. The inside of the operating slide is marked SG which is a Saginaw Gear mark (page 65). I just picked up a sear marked "XI". We got our hands on one of the original MCXs for some testing. In 1942 the Ordinance District requested of General Motors Saginaw Steering Gear Division take over the M1 carbine production assigned to Irwin Model: M1 Carbine Serial Number: 1767065 Year of Manufacture: 1942 to 1944. Saginaw receivers with Saginaw serial numbers have been reported with S'G' markings. In all, more than 6.5 million M1 Carbines were produced between September 1941 and August 1945, making it one of the most prolific arms of World War II. 3 3/16" (approx.) Overall Condition:This rifle retains about 87% of its metal finish. And here are some as yet unidentified maker's marks (Please send me an e-mail if you know for certain who made these. Sapwood is pale yellow-gray to nearly white. I recently purchased an M1 carbine manufactured by Quality Hardware that has a bayonet lug. There were 3 basic handguard styles for the carbines M1 & M2, with minor variations by manufacturers that often changed over time. 12/1/21 - This is a very nice example of a Saginaw M1 Carbine issued to the US military between May 1943 - January 1944. To get better and faster responses and opinions. Among the most sought after U.S. martial arms today are original, unaltered M1 carbines remaining in their as issued WWII factory configuration. CARBINE / CAL. However, the majority of carbines made in WWII had the non-adjustable L type rear sights. Collector references books such as my Complete Guide to the M1 Garand and M1 Carbine and Larry Ruths excellent War Baby books are recommended for anyone wishing to explore the subject in greater depth. Simi Valley, CA 93065. Most everything can be easily bought online these days. I'm sure it's not all original. Action Type: Semi Auto, Detachable Magazine. The technical storage or access that is used exclusively for statistical purposes. We believe we sell living history, and honor the veterans who fought and died for our freedoms. Such markings can be sanded off by someone wishing to remove such evidence so any sanded areas make the stock suspect. The bore shows an M.E. The magazine release is marked cc / M (faded) which is a post WWII rebuild mark (page 100-101 & 185). Inland receivers initially rejected because of an off spec deep hole drilled for the recoil spring and guide, later recovered and altered to use a detachable main spring housing). Bogus trolling question. Resulting in the change of the design to the type V stock. Markings per component: -Barrel Bands -Type 1 (Early Narrow Band) -Inland: Marked "UI" "U" Or unmarked. Ser. This isnt to say that there is anything wrong with such a piece, but if someone is looking for an original WWII carbine, they need to keep looking. The stock is pretty clean and has cartouche markings on it. Examples being outdated parts and prototype parts that had accumulated throughout the various Free shipping for many products! Saginaw M1 Carbine .30 Carbine Semi-Auto Rifle Blue Sky Import - C&R - 12500203. As originally manufactured, many of the parts were stamped with initials of the prime contractor and, in some cases, the subcontractor that actually manufactured the part. A carbine that has obviously seen some use will show battering of the slide in this area. No specific manufacture dates are listed due to a number of reasons explained on pages 24 to 26 of Scott Duffs book, The M1 Carbine Owners Guide. The varnish is a little thin around the sling cutout. The magazine shows scrapes, thin scratches, and discoloration from oxidation. Most of the markings are deep. GENERAL MOTORS 12-43. Legacy Collectibles strives to provide quality investment-grade military collectibles to an appreciative public. Overall, the gun is in nice condition. 317XXXX. marked: AI,SI, JI,or KI(INLAND) M1 Carbine Barrel Band Type 3 (bayonet lug) Used G.I. There has to be either a period or apostrophe after each letter of the SG on the receiver heel. Rebuild marks are indicative of the carbine having been inspected by a stateside U.S. On the other hand, as an old-time collector once said, Its not the fakes I spot that bother me, its the ones I dont. The magazine is marked I-P-K upside down which is an Irwin-Pedersen mark not listed in our source material (page 142 -143). Some were sequential but many were not. another state. Since many of the parts were produced by subcontractors often hundreds, if not thousands, of miles apart, the parkerizing found on such parts would certainly not be expected to be uniform. Chambered in .30 cal, A very scarce WW2 Saginaw manufacture U.S. M1 Carbine .30 Caliber Semi-Auto rifle. Saginaw Carbines made in the Grand Rapids, Michigan factory are marked SG . Below is a breakdown of the parts: Barrel: Inland. There is fouling and intermittent light erosion in the grooves. It is only fair that some context of time be added to such comments. The stock shows several scrapes & scratches. NOTE: We have added in the descriptions of parts we have of different markings we have come across over the years. Markings:There is no visible import mark. We did not fire this rifle. The front sight is marked 6 on the left and N on the top which was used by Irwin-Pedersen and others (page 56). M1 Carbine Saginaw Type 1A barrel band complete. The ebb and flow of mass production created parts surpluses and shortages for all the prime contractors, barrels included. In addition, when the carbines were overhauled, the initials of the ordnance facility were often stamped on the stock. Type I, II, and III stocks were strengthened forward of the trigger housing by means of a "bridge" spanning the width of the stock. These receivers were purchased by Winchester. At least one document has been found that indicates Saginaw received Ordnance Black cherry was approved and saw very limited use. A few stock and/or carbine restoration The resulting grooves could serve as a precision mounting for something, night-sight or other. and appears to have come later. .. Swivels: Unmarked -Underwood: Didn't mark them. Location: Upwind of the Giant Plaster Lemon. XA through XD was assigned for use by their Engineering Section on carbines built for testing and evaluation by their engineers. Typically these punch marks are rather deep and readily apparent. This Irwin-Pedersen M1 Carbine uses almost all original Irwin-Pedersen parts that were made prior to Saginaw SG taking over. SOLD - Saginaw Gear M1 Carbine. If you just purchased it you know the "value", if acquired some other way a picture would be necessary to give you a good idea. For the best experience on our site, be sure to turn on Javascript in your browser. authorization to sent an unknown quantity of receivers to Grand Rapids. There is minor wear concentrated around the high edges of the receiver. That way, were helping small businesses in to strengthen the Type III stock that were carried over into use in all of the M2 stocks. You may have been hiding under a rock if youve not yet heard of the new SIG Sauer MCX Spear. This M1 Carbine is 1 part short of being considered all matching. My IP is in the first serial block--1776xxx. Most websites are poorly Here is one for you. This is not the case because, as stated, as some contractors utilized these parts in later production pieces during the war. This bridge was eliminated with all M2 stocks and removed from earlier stocks later converted The technical storage or access is necessary for the legitimate purpose of storing preferences that are not requested by the subscriber or user. I have one, 1776xxx. subcontractors, suppliers, members of the military or government, and others to show appreciation for their assistance and cooperation I'm guessing this indicates a Springfield Armory rebuild. When the narrow L type non-adjustable rear sights were replaced by the adjustable variety during overhaul, the later types were generally staked into place by punch pricks on both sides of the sight base. American Black Walnut had a long history of 94 W. Cochran St., Suite B 30 M1.; the top rear is marked SAGINAW S G / 3426991. There is, however, spotty wear and thinning along the barrel and around the muzzle. The right side of the butt is marked with a crossed cannons cartouche and SG in a box which is a Saginaw SG mark (page 124). Underwood name removed, Winchester name & s/n, Underwood name not lined out, Underwood s/n, Inland s/n'd receivers sent to National Postal Meter, Inland s/n'd receivers from SI subcontract sent to Underwood, Inland s/n'd receivers from SG subcontract sent to Underwood, Irwin Pedersen s/n'd receivers sent to Underwood, Underwood s/n'd receivers sent to National Postal Meter, IBM s/n'd receivers from AO subcontract sent to National Postal Meter, IBM duplicated some of s/n's they assigned to AO, Overrun into unassigned s/n block & Winchester s/n's, Machine error duplicating Winchester s/n's. An Ordnance supplement Alcohol, Tobbaco and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency. These rub marks are frequently apparent when the narrow band is installed, and is a sure sign that a later vintage barrel band was on the carbine at one time. standard for all type V M2 pot belly stocks by all manufacturers. It is in about Good condition. Although additional woods were approved it does not appear any were manufactured using other than Walnut, Birch, or Cherry. Thicker wood along the right side adjacent the slide (bottom). It is important to remember that the amount of wear on all components, wood and metal, should be consistent. Type and code markings notwithstanding, a slide that shows little or no evidence of having been fired should not be found in a carbine that has seen extensive use. Lock, Stock & Barrel Investments Box, Paperwork & Accessories:The rifle has a canvas sling attached. To provide the best experiences, we use technologies like cookies to store and/or access device information. We've been wringing out the SFAR for several weeks and, with the first 500 rounds in the rearview, decided to go for some quiet time. SIG Sauer Tango MSR Optic Review: Your Value & Performance LPVO. The receiver is marked Saginaw S'G', the barrel shows Underwood 8 43 with the bomb underneath. Numbers were issued sequentially, beginning where We buy and sell collectible firearms and militaria ranging from the Civil War to Desert Storm, specializing in WW1 & WW2. The barrel has been treated with cold blue. Also, any indention in the wood at the tip of the stock covered by the barrel band should be examined. It appears to read S. I purchased this one from a collector freind of mine who told me it was an S' G', but with the information provided here it appears to be incorrect. Walnut, Birch, and Cherry stocks were placed in raw linseed oil for a period of time, 12/1/21 - This is a very nice example of a Saginaw M1 Carbine issued to the US military between May 1943 - January 1944. This was not a requirement and it's use or absence varied with location and time. I shaped sling cut, High Wood covers slide The rear sight is a Type I dual flip up aperture. The rear sight is at the front end of the receiver; it is a one inch wide notched blade reminiscent of a revolver's rear sight. Questions should be posted in the appropriate forum. This M1 Carbine is 1 part short of being considered all matching. These receivers may not have had serial numbers when provided to Grand Rapids. ): B [circled] (I've seen some cases of 100 that were marked Winchester, but packed with these "B" magazines-- could they be a subcontract from Bridgeport?) A brand new condition stock on a carbine with well-used metal components is a sure indication that something is amiss. until Ordnance arranged for additional barrel manufacturers. For the best experience on our site, be sure to turn on Javascript in your browser. CARBINE / CAL. due to a lack of original documentation. Thinning on the trigger group. I have a Saginaw SG 3.22 million range. Many people have reconstructed many carbines with what they believe should have been on the carbine when it left the factory. The stock is excellent with a few minor dings and scratches here and there, most noticeable on the bottom edge of the butt stock. There is a light import mark on the right side of the barrel. Underwood supplied barrels for Irwin-Pedersen (page 50). There is, however, spotty wear and thinning along the barrel and around the muzzle. Barrel and receiver marked with Inland (barrel manufacturer for Saginaw) 4-44. Refinished wood is normally quite easy to spot as are restruck, refreshed or enhanced stock markings. Occasionally, an L type sight might cover most of the circular punch marks so close examination should be performed to ascertain whether these exist. For more information: www.p65warnings.ca.gov. It will add to your WWII collection. 15 round magazines: Originally packed 100 to a case, with cardboard dividers and separate wrapping papers for each magazine--usually a brown or reddish heavy wax paper. Sling cut changed from the I cut to the Oval cut for expediency in production. The quantity of carbines used by their Engineering Section varied so the numbers with each prefix also varied. Need Help?service@guns.comCall (866)582-4867, PO Box 1131 13800 Nicollet Blvd Burnsville, MN 55337 2023Guns.com. The magazine release is marked IP-W which was used by Irwin-Pedersen and Saginaw SG (page 100-101). / 44. Yellow Birch heartwood tends to be a light reddish brown, with nearly white sapwood. All Rights Reserved. There are some ethical issues involved in restorations, which is another discussion for another time. Parts wear out, carbines are disassembled for the sale of the parts individually. The LOP measures 13 inches from the front of the trigger to the back of the buttplate. This M1 Carbine has been rebuilt and now uses a mix of Inland and USGI parts. The rifle comes with a green canvas sling. Copyright 2012-document.write(new Date().getFullYear()) There was no requirement as to using the serial numbers in order. The bore shows an M.E. The trigger group is a type two pattern with the upright Inland markings on Thank you. It's listed with Inland. Early Swivels: Unmarked Late Swivels: Marked "UI" "U" -Winchester: Didn't Year of Manufacture:1942 to 1944. If a receiver was scrapped and not used, its serial number may or may not have been reused. Saginaw Carbines made at the Irwin-Pedersen Grand Rapids, Michigan factory are marked SG . Serial number blocks were assigned by the Ordnance Department on an as needed basis, generally in response to the awarding of a contract to a given manufacturer.